Hugi Magazine 32: Say It With Flowers

hugi 32 header graphic

"Another death for Grapevine" - reply (By DaZZaBoY / OldskoolUK)

In reply to Darkhawk/Iris's article in EuroChart #48, namely 'Another Death For Grapevine?', I've decided to post my final reply article to HUGI as it was the closest publication deadline after the EuroChart #48 release.

The overall article itself and the whole story for that matter, is VERY past tense but big thanks go out to Darkhawk who attempted to give us the chance to turn the final page of the book and give those that actually worked on the production the chance to step up to the mic and clear the air. I've volunteered myself for the joyous task of trying to create a fairly diplomatic article to explain some of the facts and clear up the grey areas surrounding the Grapevine.NET / Ellesdee revival project.

Note: the other ex-Ellesdee members have proofread this article and added certain details I'd missed.

Original LSD member permission

Firstly, let's have a look at the individuals who we contacted and actually took time to give us a response:

* KenD - was always in agreement to the whole project and was a regular article contributor for the first two issues.

* Spoony (Echo/LSD) - wasn't against the idea and appreciated the fact that we were nostalgic enough to actually recreate a tribute to the mag. He also did an interview and music for us!

* Fish/LSD - was emailed and replied showing interest in contributing something to the mag and possibly doing a future interview. After our closure, he was seen on forums flaming us as lamers and shunning the whole project? I very much doubt the validity of this but I'm maybe wrong?

* I came across Sir Garbagetruck on IRC briefly and asked him for Pazza's email addy. He wouldn't pass on the details and stated that "I really didn't want to talk to Pazza." Ah, but I did! If I'd have had chance to do this, then maybe the whole thing could have been resolved from the outset, but no, super leet egos and anonimity must remain sacred. A classic case of how unco-operation and inflated, self importance can seriously screw things up. Also, in one of Pazza's texts he claimed he'd never even heard of Truck. Wtf? Who exactly is kidding who here then?

None of the other ex-LSD staff could be found and we considered this ample enough to go ahead with the tribute.

Wannabe fucks?

Wannabe fucks trying to get a leg up on the scene ladder? As was subtly put by Pazza in his long arsed rant. This couldn't be further from the truth!

What the hell did we want to be exactly? Our sole purpose was to get off our arses and become active by trying produce something which would draw in outside interest and provide a magnet for new or ex-sceners to contribute to a variety of topics and catch up with old contacts. We were individuals driven purely by nostalgia and wanted to acheive the near impossible task of creating a standlone production and a friendly, positive vibe. Not some cheap, fame seeking attempt at making ourselves look big by ripping off an already established scene name, we really weren't bothered in all that. It's a damn shame that a certain few still struggle to comprehend this fact, but then again, that's now your problem not ours.

Height of lameness

"Using soundalike group names is the height of lameness." With regards to us using the Ellesdee tag, we found an available domain for this and registered it for pure comedy value. This was a decision made by Zildjian, KenD and myself, no excuses.

As for using the name Dazza to sound like the other guy, well this is bullshit pure and simple. I was using Daz, Dazza & DaZZaBoy blah blah, way before Grapevine or LSD was a tadpole in Pazza's balls, so another example of a false accusation which was completely swallowed by the shallow and hard of thinking.

Old GV or new GV?

Any idiot knows that our version of GV and the original were impossible to compare. The world is a different place, the scene is a different place and technology is worlds apart to what it was 10-15 years ago. Even though LSD had some talent amongst their ranks, the main factor that kept GV afloat for so long was the readership. The number of UK / worldwide sceners in the foregone Amiga scene compared to today is only a small fraction, so it was pure lethargy and lack of outside support that killed our revival and nothing more.

Pouet BBS - the rancid, bowels of the scene!

Everyone knows the horrendous amount of petty name calling that went on in most scene threads during our time and it really was a pitiful display by some well known and 'respected' sceners who jumped on the scene travesty bandwagon to comment on something they didn't care to understand. If you navigate your way around the net, you still see a lot of the flamewars/arguments that went on but the main display of this is still evident on Pouet. This was and still is one crazy, screwed up place and isn't that dissimilar to a care home for the mentally inept.

As I've mentioned in another article hosted on our Oldskool UK forum, maybe (in hinesight) the whole revival decision and the use of the Grapevine and Ellesdee names weren't such a big hit afterall BUT it's a decision we made as a group and we were given the nod from the few original LSD staff members that we could actually contact.

Why is it such a crime that a collective of ex-Amiga sceners and active users wanted to get together and create a tribute to a classic diskmag by producing a modern, viewable web based production? For this, I'm perfectly happy being labelled as a thief, lamer or whatever else and be remembered for producing something positive instead of being an obnoxious, inactive idiot. Yes, you know who you are out there.

Anyway, I am tired and very bored of telling this story now and it's something I won't ever do again. Take the above information how you wish to take it - you can believe the truth and take facts as they actually happened or continue to ramble on about scene treachery. Whatever, I really don't give a fuck either way now - We are still very much active in our own circles and are working on an entirely new prod as we speak. Our interests lie in the computing scene as a whole and not just the strangulated ways of the worldwide demoscene. Open your mind!


Additional thanks go out to the following people:

* Sarek2k for the spot on GFX work in GV, Zildjian for the web coding and server hosting, CoDeMaN, zYX, Darkus and all other contributors and ESD forum users.

* Phantom and users at WOIBBS (Amiga CNet BBS, Chicago) for the support during the short life of our production

* Adok/Hugi for hosting this article and various others who provided us with constructive criticism and welcomed a non-l33t magazine project which covered another angle to what was already out there.

* Ghandy for sending us a well structured review of the mag and then slipped into the same bucket of shit on Pouet like other individuals from the Pain mag staff. Shame.

* Browallia (CnS Amiga diskmag), who I've traded a few emails with recently and gave us another window to give our version of the history. Thx Erik!

* Canine at Demon Download for producing a kick ass, retro Amiga scene dbase which is fast becoming the best in the scene IMHO. Keep adding those prods Claus. :)

* Finally, to the current and ex-sceners who actually enjoyed what we did for a short time and thanked us for bringing it back and could actually see through the fame seeking crap. Cheers guys - your positive feedback and contribution was appreciated and it's hardly suprising a lot of you wish to remain hidden from today's demoscene.

To end on a quote from the Eurochart article..


Now that's some fucking achievment boy!! =)

DaZZaBoY / OldskoolUK