Re: Beyond Design (...) from Quartz/Officium in Hugi12
Written by Psychic Symphony
> I wonder if anyone of you ever went to see one of those computer art > installations...
Not me!
> Talking avatars, sounds controlled by visitor's movements, "intelligent" > robots, virtual flights... is technology breaking into art or art into > technology?
Can't say that I have... Sounds interesting... Art and technology... Tough subject!
> Well, in fact that scene is not much different from the demoscene: things > that once were avantgarde have become routine (and I'd say, pretty boring), > and nothing new helped filling the space. Moreover one could bring demos to > one of those "interactive" happenings.
Hey! Wait a minute... You think things that what was avantgarde now is routine coz you don't give them a proper analysis! It's like small gadgets like can-openers, pens and... disks! You are so used to using them as a standard day-to-day basis that you forget about trying to understand how they we're built and how hard it was to invent them... It's called evolution! And it has consequences...
> Hardly the last demos made us say "Hey, what's this?" or "How the hell can > they do this?!?", even those really good.
You're right! And even then, after a couple of reviews you end up having an idea on how it was done. That's why I think discovering the demoscene was a lot more fun than belonging to the demoscene...
> It looks like we - as demo-watchers - can't physiologically say anything > more than "How good!". Is this a problem with us or with the demos? Just the > fact that now we all know at least basically how a 3D engine works throws > away most part of the mystery.
I guess you're right...
> But hey, good art should bring permanent mistery and surprise!
Oh yeah?
> This is why I say a good design is not enough if we really want the scene to > be innovative. (Won't say that nowadays even good code, once a must, has > become optional: we all know the story.)
Not true! Example is Pulse's asm'98 demo! Mostly just art pics one
after another. Hardly much design and not much code involved although
it exists! And the demo came out badly placed!
Don't get me wrong... Visualize is a very good gfxer and the rest of
the Pulse guys did their job very well as well... It just lacked
something!
All the time! It's called: 'getting inspiration for a new project!'
No! We all know that by now... ;)
Self-realization of a job well done? Character? Reason to get drunk
with the gang? Reason to go to demoparties? Trying to do faster than
the other guy? Who knows...
So you like screensavers... What's your point?
I had to ask...
It will end up as a slideshow! Better do a homepage then...
It's called pleasing musicians! You ask the musician to do what he
feels like doing and then you get the pics the gfxer felt like doing,
you add some effects you have lying around and you can forget about
designing all together!
Hey! I'm open to new ideas! Just replying to an article...
That would be interesting! That's a very good idea! :) You should try
with other music styles... (not the art-pop, MTV style...), other
non-mainstream music!
My mom doesn't even know I code demos! She thinks I play games all the
time!
Wow! Now that should be interesting! I shall give it a try! :)
What demos DO Finnish like?
And what else? Want me to stop breathing too?!?
I think he's a bit old for that already... DAMN!
Where do I sign up? ;)
I don't have a girlfriend! They never understand me!
Don't have 30's movies around...
Er... They all have already been invented!
What's an amiga? ;)
Already tried... Turned out as an RPG script im working on with a
friend!
Iiiiiii don't think so...
DONE!
Some are cool! Some stink! Depends on if the world walks are tediously
boring or not!
OK then... That's answered, now for some real reasons on why it is
meaningless...
First of all there is the group thing... Either we conduct the show or we let
everyone do what they feel like doing and it will end up like something you
didn't forsee! If all group members like the output and contributed for it,
then your group is with the right members. :) Although most of the time, group
members do not agree on lots of things, it's perfectly natural. Also some
people like to do things their way, others like to let it develop. It's all a
part of getting the demo done! :)
I'm writing too much again... Better stick with the facts...
FACT:
Well... This is a hard problem if you already have finished the demo. You can
either leave it unsync or change some things either on the tune or on the
layout of the demo...
FACT:
All this to reach to the point which is: The fact that it is a group's work
making a demo and that each person has a different view of it will thereby
overule the need for thinking of a subject/theme/new ideas for the upcoming
demo! Unless, of course, everyone agrees just to do what it fits within that
idea and with that we will lose the fun in doing the demo!
It's no longer a hobby but an obligation to make the demo and so we go from
fun to work! And although I flunked economy class I do recall hearing the
teacher say (in one of the 3 sessions I attended!) and I quote:
'To work without a refund is exactly the opposite of having fun and getting
paid! That means you are in front of double negation. That means you are
wasting your time! And waste is a word that we shouldn't have present on an
economy class. It symbolizes everything that is bad in our society!'
I wonder why the hell I flunked economy... The final exam went so well... I
replied 3 out of 4. Two of them were even correct! Why a 7! And the teacher
was passing people with 9... Weird...
Anyway... The reason why the article is meaningless is that groups' opinions
always change the final result towards the standard...
Maybe that's why you like Onirics, Quartz... They are normally coded by a one
man team! :)
Psychic Symphony
Friend in Evolve
and Mr. Demojournal on Mondays and Fridays
It's our demoscene... Let's make things happen!
> Digital artists don't seem to be able to find a way to exit this trend; even
> Brian Eno kinda resigned. Aren't we demosceners any better? And doesn't our
> story have something to teach us?
>
> So, instead of coding diskmags and painting still images without a context
> (hey, I'm not against them, I just don't like people foxilizing on things)
> why don't we sometimes do sessions to look for new ideas/concepts?
> I mean, there aren't many typologies of demos around, all somehow fall into
> the old big categouries:
>
> - 3d world walk/"story"
> - unrelated fxs slideshow
> - wicked (statix, coma...)
> - oniric screensavers (Luminati, Xtal...)
>
> Do I have to metion the old story that art is a form of communication?
> What new can we bring if we still use the old schemes?
> Just look at how the 4th group is not exactly a category like the other
> three... maybe we could do some more progresses in that direction, but this
> is just what my personal tastes say.
> How to change our mentality?
> Explore stupid ideas:
>
> - let the graphicians do a demo without code
> - after a piece of music is ready ask all of the group to write down
> what the music should be for (to avoid the effect: "u got this
> music and I got this code, let's see what happens by putting them
> together" because hardly you'll completely reject the result) (to
> avoid also the other effect "please write me a trippy/whatever
> music")
> - convince yourself mentality HAS to be changed
> - go in a REAL music hall hearing Beethoven and in the while think
> about all details of the missing visual part
> - do it with Stravinskij
> - code a demo that your mum might like (or if she already likes them
> find someone else :)
> - code another one with the things you had to eliminate at the
> previous point
> - code a demo Finnish won't ever like :))
> - stop thinking about demos
> - adopt Statix
> - find (and send me) items for this list
> - join Officium
> - let your girl(/boy)friend decide for the demo
> - watch ooold movies (at least before 1930) and compare them with
> your favourites, then think what to compare winner demos with
> - invent a new (non computer-related) form of art
> - get Brian Eno's oblique strategies
> - forget all silly old discussions like amiga vs pc, dos vs win,
> soft vs 3dfx, me vs you...
> - write a novel about the idea you wanna code
> - become a lesbian in a man's body (or viceversa)
> - write in the next Hugi why this article is meaningless
>
> Final notes:
>
> (1) I LOVE the great 3d world walks, like Sunflower! Hope to see them
> forever!
> (2) yes, I am mad
> (3) no, you are too
> (4) Mad does not apply to the previous
>
> - Quartz/Officium
Most trackers don't like keeping altering their finished tunes so that they
will sync with some effect on a demo.
Almost all graphicians don't like to see their graphics displayed unproperly!
Any little scaling, palette change or tweak will upset them!
Disturber in The Utopians
Guiding hand in ActiveFuel
Nice guy in Arf!Studios